gibbons1

SoCalHoops High School & Prep Report

The Reebok/Bob Gibbons TOC:
The Great Rockfish Debate--(May 26, 1998)

We weren't at these games, but the Rockfish and Belmont Shore teams were, and we did get some pretty good info on how the Rockfish team did from Shantay's posts on the SoCalHoops Message Forum. But it seems that as soon as Shantay got home, he checked out our SoCalHoops Message Forum and the Recruiting Beat's Beat Board as well, and there seems to be quite a debate raging for now about just how well Rockfish really did. Depending on whom you read (east coast stuff, or west coast stuff), it seems Shantay and his boys either played unselfish team ball or they were just not selfish enough because they didn't conform to the one-on-one style of play that is so prevalent in these types of tournaments.

Read the following and decide for yourselves. Frankly, we'd rather see a team full of players go to one of these "all-star" traveling team tourneys go out and play real team ball, and real team defense, and end up losing rather than have a bunch of one man shows. Sure it's nice to beat your man off the dribble, but every time down the floor is pretty boring. We think from what we've seen of Legans that he has the ability to do both; we weren't at the Gibbons Reebok TOC, so we really can't say. But we can give you all the details of what the debate is about. So here's how it got started. Apparently Shantay posted the following here at SoCalHoops, just as an informational bit:

"Posted by Shantay on May 25, 1998 at 11:05:20:

"Well, we're home and disappointed again. There were some great players at the tournament, but my vote is for Rafael. He played like King Kong in our game against the Atlanta Celtics. We lost by 3 in overtime to them and they went on and won the whole tournament. Our first game we lost to Iowa and we sucked. Our second game we beat St. Louis and I played good in the last 2 games. Somebody said I only had 4 points and 2 assists they must be on crack cuz I was balling. Nick got hurt and everybody else played ok. We just got to get that killer instinct and finish when we got them down. Next stop Jacksonville, Florida!!

"Rockfish!!!"

Following that message, Shantay had a chance to go over the The Recruiting Beat where he took a look at the Beat Board. There were a series of messages there, including the following:

"Posted by Tony on May 25, 1998 at 08:42:50:

"What's up with coverage of the Bob Gibbons Tourny? I know you like big fellas Patrick but I heard Shantay Legans and Rafael were really ballin in the Rockfish overtime loss to Atlanta Celtics? Can't wait for your review. Also a question, why aren't stats given out, just points? Sounds like the two guards from New York were ballin also. Did they pass any?"

That message got the following reply over at Recruiting Beat:

"Posted by Phillip on May 25, 1998 at 10:26:42:

"In Reply to: Bob Gibbons Tourny posted by Tony on May 25, 1998 at 08:42:50:

"Saw the Rockfish and Celtics game. (One of the 40 or so people actually there.) Rafeal played great. He took his man at will. Pretty crossover, spin moves, and head fakes. He needs to work on his hops and quicks, but he's got the moves and shot. Shantay did not do much maybe 4 or so points and a couple of assists. Legens is way overhyped. Any point that can't break his man down consistently off of the dribble doesn't create enough opportunities for the big men. Brian Weathers (the best player this weekend for the Rockfish) and Rafeal kept them in the game. Weathers must have had about 20 points off of drives to the basket and nice jumpshots.

"Basically the Celtics were too quick, too deep, and too tough. If Donell Harvey weren't in foul trouble the game wouldn't have been so close. I think the Celtics had the deepest and most talented team of the tourney. They easily beat the DC Stars for the championship yesterday with Donell Harvey ending it with a MONSTER!!! lefthanded double clutch windmill jam. No one this weekend had the combination of power and quickness around the hoop that Harvey displayed. If he could play outside to 15 feet he'd be a killer. Reminds me of a shorter Shawn Kemp.

"Saw the two NY guards (Majestic Mapp and Kenny Satterfield) play three times. Satterfield scored 29 points had about 10 assists and a couple of steals on Demarr Johnson, Tony Robertson, and Deshuan Williams. (Each guarded him and each one got smoked.) Basically he dominated the game. At one point Satterfield called Demarr out when the Playaz were trying to zone him, broke his ankles and took to the ball to the hoop. I think at that point it was his third consecutive basket on Demarr. The Playaz ended up winning the game--they had way too much talent to lose, but Satterfield and Mapp played well. They were the best guard combo this weekend without a doubt. No one stopped either of them from getting to the hoop this whole weekend.

"Satterfield and Adam Harrington(NC State) had a pretty awesome battle for the "losers" bracket championship sunday. Both were pretty tired, but it was still entertaining. They basically traded baskets with eachother. It would be interesting to see them both play eachother when they are fresh. Personally, I think Harrington has a better upside to him. Bigger, better jump shot, jumps out of the gym, but Satterfield has such a sweet crossover and passes the ball extremely well. Tough call. If you want more opinions on some of the people I saw this weekend, I'll be happy to tell them. BTW Forte from Md. won the tourney MVP. Well deserved he played great."

This prompted a reply over on The Recruiting Beat from another reader:

"Posted by Jeez on May 25, 1998 at 10:58:18:

"Hey, I know for a fact Legans got 12 points and a GANG of assists in that Rockfish/Celtic game. Whay you gotta be a player hater? Maybe you got Legans and Montgomery mixed up (the other PG) he got 2-4 points. As for Wethers, he might be the chemistry problem on the team, he doesn't see the other players and Berumen was the MAN. Legans isn't overhyped, he isn't hyped at all. He is known as Mr. Assist. Also, it isn't about one on one, it's about team ball. Ball hogs NOT wanted. Ask any player he's played with and they'll all take Legans #1 as their PG.

And yet Phillip got another reply over on Recruiting Beat from Jeez Two on May 25, 1998 at 11:00:49:

"You sound like a guy that believes one on one ball, not team."

This prompted a reply from Phillip:

"Posted by Phillip on May 25, 1998 at 11:28:19:

"I'm certainly not a playa hata. I WANTED Shantay to play well. I'm from So. Cal. (Crenshaw District). I wanted the Rockfish to win the whole thing. Even after they lost the first game to a mediocre Iowa team.....yes Iowa team. I watched them play two more times. I know who Shantay and Montgomery are. If you could combine those two into one person, then you would have one heck of a point. I will give Shantay one thing. He runs a very pretty fast break. Nevertheless, today's game requires the ability for the point to break his man down like Satterfield or Majestic Mapp did consistently throughout the tourney. Drive, Draw, Dish. Put one of those guys on the Rockfish and the three big guys get 5 or 6 dunks every game.

"BTW were you at the game? I didn't feel that Weathers was a gun by any means. I thought his shots came in the flow of the game. Heck, the Berumen were the only guys who could consistently create a shot for themselves.

"One last thing, the one time Shantay did score two quick baskets on his guy, the coach pulled him. Couldn't figure that one out."

To which Jeez replied:

"Posted by Jeez on May 25, 1998 at 12:01:21

"I do know that Shantay has to work on his strength, but also know that he has the ability to drive, draw and dish. He looks to pass first, so maybe in this day of me first, that isn't right. Also, Wethers does not SEE his teammates."

Which prompted the following reply from Phillip over on the Recruiting Beat:

"Posted by Phillip on May 25, 1998 at 12:52:05:

"Shantay may have the ability to 3D, but he did not show it this weekend. I can only go by what I see. I can't go by what I hear. I don't think it's his strength so much as an attitude. He needs to take his man(and know he can take his man) to create the space for Berumem to operate. Maybe he's too unselfish. Personally, I think the biggest problem with the Rockfish is the combination of talent. I think they have three big guys who basically all play the same position (pf) and who tend to get in the way of eachother. What they REALLY need is a quick, tough scoring small forward. Then they could put Berumen at PF, let Van der Laan get his 10-12 boards a game, and let Johnson come off of the bench to give either one of those guys a breather. As you know in these kinds of tournaments you've got to have depth at each position to win. That's why the Celtics with Harvey in foul trouble still won the game. On the Wethers thing, he may not look to pass to anyone, but he was the ONLY one who scored consistently the whole weekend. This is not high school ball where you run your system. The games tend to be helter-skelter which means you've got to be able to break your man down off of the dribble, and Wethers and Montgomery are the only two that did that this weekend. Check out Forte from Md. The guy killed everybody he played. He did much of his damage off of the dribble, which freed him for his three point shot. Even John Stockton, the consummate point guard, in his prime could take anyone he wanted to off of the dribble."

Meanwhile, back at the ranch. . . oops, er, we mean, over here at SoCalHoops, Shantay posted the following:

"Posted by Shantay on May 25, 1998 at 11:49:38:

"I was thinking, maybe the guy that thought I only got 4 points mixed me up with Devin [Montgomery] or Russell [Lakey]. Cuz Russell didn't get to play that much, but when he got in he did fine. Just to let Russell know that it was like that for me last year and your turn is coming. Hang in there."

Which of course prompted the following from Phillip here at SoCalHoops in reply:

"Posted by Phillip on May 25, 1998 at 19:01:05:

"Shantay,

"I was the guy who posted that comment on the weekend. Go back to the recruitingbeat and see for yourself what I posted. Berumen and Wethers were two of the better players in the tourney, but let's be real Harvey was in foul trouble most of the game. There was no one who could match up with him physically one-on-one. Let's not play politics and try to say the "politically correct" thing to protect your players. Good luck, and next time take the ball to the hoop!

"PS. Berumen did not play well until that Celtics game. Then the brother woke up and showed a very developed game. What the hell happened against that sorry Iowa team? I was really disappointed by your teams performance in that game.

Phillip also got several other replies here at SoCalHoops, including the following:

"Posted by Jennings on May 26, 1998 at 12:10:40:

"Donnell Harvey was in foul trouble because he couldn't handle Rafael's post moves. Saying that he couldn't show his stuff because he was in foul trouble is akin to saying that Tayshaun Prince would have been a great player except that he weighs about a buck-twenty or that Kenny Brunner is a nice guy, except for a few personal problems.

"Harvey, who is an exceptional player, couldn't handle Raf is their match-up. Obviously, the outcome in their next match-up may be different, but at Gibbons, Berumen took care of business and took Harvey out of the game. Van der Laan also worked hard to knock Harvey off the boards."

Here's another reply to Phillip:

"Posted by East Coast on May 26, 1998 at 11:09:43:

"I was there also and the only rap I see on Shantay is that he needs to get greedy and get his also while distributing the ball - he is the best passer I have seen in a long time. Very intelligent. He is a player's PG, not a spectator's PG. Ask somebody."

Finally, Shantay himself responded again:

"Posted by Shantay on May 25, 1998 at 19:54:37:

"Yeah we sucked in the Iowa game and I was disappointed also. Harvey is good and even tho he was in foul trouble we played good in that game. It's called encouragement - we know what we gotta do. What are you TALKING about political correct??"

We're sure the debate about what makes a "better" point guard is not over yet. But for our money, we've got to say that we actually prefer to watch a point with the style of a Shantay, Brandon Granville, DeAndre Moore, who can drive but often opts for the dish or the bullet pass rather than penetrating and getting stuck down low with nowhere to turn; we'd rather watch a fast-breaking transition game with the point pushing the ball with the good up-court pass any day than watch a guy walk the ball up the floor only to then play one-on-one with the defender.

At least that's our two cents worth.